Lamb Quizzes Johnson on Obesity

12.22.22pm GMT Thu 24th Jan 2008

[Jan 23] Norman Lamb: I thank the Secretary of State for giving me early sight of his statement. Last time we discussed this subject, I challenged him to join me in taking part in the 10 km London run.

He has not come back to me on that yet. Perhaps the enthusiasm of the Minister of State, Department of Health, the hon. Member for Exeter (Mr. Bradshaw), for physical exercise in the form of cycling suggests that he might be more up for it. However, I am still waiting to hear from the Secretary of State and, indeed, from the Conservative spokesman.

We all agree about the scale of this problem. It is growing at a much faster rate than anyone anticipated, and this country has the worst rates of obesity anywhere in Europe. By 2010, there will be 1 million obese children, which is a pretty frightening statistic, and we are now seeing the onset of type 2 diabetes among children, which had previously not been the case. We must also consider the knock-on health consequences-including heart and liver disease, as well as the mental health problems and low self-esteem that go with obesity-as well as the cost to the NHS and the economy.

I welcome the statement's commitment to placing science and evidence at the heart of policy-making in this area. It is always welcome when the Government are prepared to change the habits of a lifetime by moving away from gimmicky, headline-driven policy making to policy making that is based on science. I also welcome the focus on physical activity.

Is it not the case, however, that the Government are their own worst enemy? Their record so far has clearly been woeful. Of course it is absurd to suggest that they are responsible for all of these problems, but they over-promise and under-deliver. The 2004 White Paper made a grand spending commitment, but the Faculty of Public Health Medicine said today that only half the money that was promised has been put forward. Why should we believe the spending commitment that has been made today, when that previous commitment has not been met? Furthermore, the target of eradicating childhood obesity by 2010 has been quietly dropped in favour of a much vaguer commitment to achieving a target by 2020.

The main issue that I want to raise is the fact that the statement says absolutely nothing about growing health inequalities. That is more relevant in the area of obesity than in any other, and there is clear evidence of a growing divide in regard to weight. The foresight report was clear in raising that concern. Will resources be targeted at those disadvantaged groups in which the problem is the greatest? Low levels of breastfeeding are particularly prevalent in disadvantaged groups. Will resources be targeted at that problem as well, as there is a clear link with obesity?

The statement makes reference to tackling fast food premises, which hit the headlines over the weekend. What is the substance behind that proposal? The statement also talks a lot about the efforts to be made in schools, but the fact is that, since the Government's introduction of the healthy eating strategy, 425,000 fewer children are eating school meals. What are the Government doing to address that concern and to encourage more children to eat school meals? The statement then lurched into nanny state mode, when it proposed to

"develop policies to ensure that the lunches children bring to school are as healthy as those now provided as school meals."

How on earth are we going to do that? Will it involve the introduction of the lunch box police? How on earth can we dictate to people in that way?

The food industry clearly has a big part to play in all this, and it would be sensible to arrive at one system for food labelling. Will the Secretary of State assure the House that such a decision will be based on evidence? Different systems are being considered at the moment; will the decision be based on evidence-

Michael Martin (Speaker): To be fair, I must interrupt the hon. Gentleman.

Alan Johnson (Secretary of State, Department of Health): That was a bit confused as well. The hon. Gentleman is trying to have it all ways. On his first point, I am tempted to say that my comments on whether I enter the cycling marathon will be delivered through a spokesperson-

Norman Lamb: It is a run, not a cycling marathon.

Alan Johnson (Secretary of State, Department of Health): Yes, but that would not have made such a good joke.

At least we are agreed on the scale. I noticed that the Liberal Democrats very quietly dropped their commitment to free adult social care yesterday. If we had put resources into that, we would not have had enough money to invest properly in public health.

I welcome the hon. Gentleman's commitment to using the relevant science. Let me mention Professor Susan Jebb from Cambridge university, who played an exceptional role in the foresight review and is now the chair of our expert group. She has looked at all these proposals in great depth and approved them.

Let me deal with the more negative aspects-for example, the hon. Gentleman's comment that the Government's record was "woeful". We can always have a knockabout and say that we have not done all that we should have done. I accept that, but woeful? Let me just clarify on school sport that when I mentioned four hours, I meant to say two hours of high-quality PE in schools- [Interruption.] Well, the record has been put straight. Back in 2002, the first time it was measured, the figure for such provision was 22 per cent., but it is now at 86 per cent.-a massive increase, well ahead of our target.

For the first time ever, we have introduced restrictions on advertising to children. I accept that some would have liked us to go further, but this is the first time that it has been done. We have introduced front-of-pack labelling. Yes, there is confusion about the different systems, but we are far ahead of the rest of Europe in that respect. Furthermore, an enormous revolution has taken place in school food. As my hon. Friend the Member for Dartford (Dr. Stoate) said a few moments ago, we need to take the public with us. Pictures of parents putting fish and chips through school gates are depressing, but we are moving forward on all those fronts.

The hon. Member for North Norfolk (Norman Lamb) asks what we are doing to encourage take-up of healthy school meals, so let me remind him that Hull had three healthy school meal projects being run under a Labour administration; the incoming Liberal Democrat council cancelled them, setting us back in tackling obesity-yet here we have Liberal Democrat Members demanding to know what more we are doing to counter obesity.

The hon. Gentleman is also wrong to say that we have a more lax public service agreement target. In fact, we have a tighter target because instead of simply seeking to halt the increase, we want to reverse the trend in child obesity-a much more difficult task-by 2020.

The hon. Gentleman asked two further questions. On fast food outlets, there are restrictions, but there is flexibility in the current planning rules. We do not want to introduce unnecessary rules; we need to use existing regulations to allow local authorities to stem the increase in those outlets near schools and parks. As for lunch boxes, my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Children, Schools and Families is not suggesting that we need lunch box police. What we are talking about are the sorts of ideas that we saw working in the Green Dragon school in Brentford today. The head teacher and other teaching staff take responsibility for looking in a child's lunch box-it is much easier in a primary than in a secondary school-and if they find that the child has just a bag of crisps and a chocolate bar, they send a message back home. Some schools actually use a traffic light system, putting on a red, green or amber sticker to send an appropriate message to parents.

The hon. Gentleman's final point was about health inequalities-a crucial issue. Obesity is a health inequality issue, as well as a public health and prevention issue, so the most intense activity should be focused on the poorest areas. We announced a £72 million investment in a public information system that we will want to use throughout the country, but it will be targeted where the problems are the most serious. I accept that obesity is a health inequality issue, and I believe that we need to use this strategy to tackle the broader health inequality problems we face. [http://tinyurl.com/2hocl7]